“Confiscate This!”

papers-please-2What is it like to live in a nation that grants citizens no rights, only such privileges as it feels like, until such time as it feels like revoking them? Kind of like being a German. The time comes when the authorities decide you’re not a Good German any more, and they come to confiscate your guns.

One guy said, “No,” kinetically; paradoxically, he’s probably in better shape in the German courts after having opened up on the cops. Because now, you see, he’s a violent criminal, something German officialdom has immer und überall privileged over political criminals.

BERLIN — An anti-government extremist opened fire on police in southern Germany during a raid Wednesday in which they had planned to confiscate his weapons, and four officers were wounded, authorities said.

So why were they confiscating his weapons? Not, apparently, because he was a nutball per se; but because he was “politically unreliable.”

The 49-year-old German man, named Wolfgang P., had legally possessed more than 30 weapons for hunting, but local authorities had revoked his license because he appeared increasingly unreliable, Bavarian Interior Minister Joachim Herrmann said.

Now you see the benefits of a registration and “background check” regime — if you’re Joachim Herrmann Göring. (Sorry, we always run those two German police officials together). Turns out, it was the second attempted confiscation. The first time he just said no.

He had previously refused to allow officials access to check his arsenal and take away the firearms.

This time, ol’ Wolfgang was still saying no, and Joachim Herrmann Göring was not taking no for an answer.

The suspect opened fire on police as they entered the house in the Bavarian town of Georgensgmuend early Wednesday morning, Herrmann said. Two officers suffered gunshot wounds — one was in life-threatening condition and the other was shot in the arm. The other two were hit by flying glass.

The shooter was overwhelmed by other officers and arrested. He was lightly injured. According to Johann Rast, the chief of Central Franconia Police, the extremist was shot when he was hiding behind a closed door.

Now, here’s where the nutballery comes in:

Authorities said the man, who calls himself a ‘Reichsbürger,’ was a supporter of the Reich Citizens’ Movement, an extremist group that refuses to acknowledge the authority of the post-war Federal Republic of Germany. The group has been compared to the U.S. sovereign citizen movement.

via Germany police raid on ‘Reichsbürger’ extremist goes awry when he opens fire, wounding four officers.

You probably don’t think you’re like that guy. You, work, take care of your family, pay your taxes and vote for members of a regular political party that’s been around for centuries. You don’t experience paranoid fixations or suicidal ideations. You can’t imagine shooting anybody, let alone cops.

It doesn’t matter. If you own guns, training materials being used now by the FBI, DOJ and DHS and all their alphabet soup of agencies define you as that guy. And a number of them itch to confiscate your guns. Those ones are destined for promotion. A number of them are opposed to confiscation, but they keep it to themselves. The greatest majority aren’t comfortable with it, but will do whatever they’re told. That is a characteristic of policemen worldwide and throughout time — they follow orders.

Unlike the Germans with Wolfgang P., they won’t make any effort to take you alive. Once you’re dead, they can tell your story, and use it as a wedge to line up their next target. And they do this because they can do it, because there is no price attached.

Food for thought:

Shooting the just-following-orders Untersturmführer when he comes to your door is too little, too late. You accomplish nothing by reminding policemen that taking doors is dangerous. They were certainly thinking about that even as they swung the ram.

You do not stop bleeding by applying pressure distal to the wound. You find a suitable pressure point. In the case of Germany, the Rights of Man were lost in the culture, more than a century ago, long before they could have been lost to the successive “good intentions” of the Bismarckian, Weimar, National Socialist, and Federal states. The rare German who insists on his rights is likely to be, and certain to be labeled, a dangerous crank.

We leave the identification and wargaming of pressure application as an exercise for the reader.


The seriously wounded policeman has died. (German-language link). But it’s still a win for Joachim Herrmann Göring, because they did confiscate the guns. They don’t care how many Untersturmführers get capped in the process.

89 thoughts on ““Confiscate This!”

  1. Loren

    Australia has a constitution but no bill or rights, hence the confiscation of most guns after first registering them. Never, ever let anyone register your guns. You’ll lose them.
    A recent huge controversy in Oz was whether to allow lever action shotguns. Lever action rifles have always been allowed but not shotguns. They use the rifles in 3 gun shoots complete with a Long Branch saloon. Funniest damn thing. The media and pols really hammered the proposal and it went nowhere.
    In general Oz laws are more finely woven than those in the US. Most everything is illegal or can be made as such. Some of the charges brought are so obtuse you have no clue what they mean. The only saving grace is their cops are a whole lot better to deal with than ours. Nicer, easier going and they don’t seem to have that swing dick attitude cops here do.

  2. John M.

    The courts only go easy on ordinary violent criminals. As a right-winger, he’ll be lucky if the German courts don’t bring back the death penalty just for him.

    -John M.

  3. S

    Confiscate what, Comrade Officer? Contrary to my legally permitted open internet presence for academic and entertainment purposes, I have no material posession or intent to possess, or use, prohibited items. I was, am, and never will be present at or implicated in the possession or use of such items. I realise your job to uphold law and order and protect peaceful life and property has of late become exceedingly onerous, perhaps in part because of a minority of certain individuals amongst large numbers being invited here against the wishes of the majority of law abiding citizens such as myself. Under such circumstances, I fully understand and appreciate your efforts to maintain law and order and the status quo, and will diligently persevere to not occupy you with futile efforts to acquire or bear items in self defence, nor to further impede your execution of your duties by burdening you with any demands in regards to defence or retribution in lieu thereof. I see nothing, hear nothing, do nothing (apart from paying taxes and obeying the law), and say nothing. If I come across anything untoward as I pursue my peaceful hobbies of fishing, birdwatching, hiking, geocaching, historical architecture and ham radio, I will duly execute my judgement as to whatever should be reported to you in these interesting times, so as not to unduly increase your already immense burden. As loyal member of this community, I understand my priviledges and responsabilities, to ensure the sustainable and ethical endurance of said community. Thank you for your service, Officer. Let me know if there is anything I can do to help….

      1. S

        When the time comes, nobody’s talking, not even the lawyers. No more excuses, run with what you’ve got. Don’t even show up for the checkpoints. Your edc had better be good, to pass the odd checkpoint now.

    1. Anonymous

      Officer Goring: “Great! We appreciate you being a good and proper subject of the state. Given that you have nothing to hide, please step aside, and we will conduct our search and be out of your hair in no time.”
      You: More effluent drivel
      Officer Goring: “Step aside! Now!”

  4. Hillbilly

    Sorry for this being off topic, but this seems to be something you might be interested in.
    The Special Forces Association Chapter 1-18 in North Carolina was wiped out by the recent flooding.


    Not sure what if any help they need.

    1. Hognose Post author

      Crap. One thing they need is freeze drying for the documents (they don’t know they need that, but they do). It could save a lot of the damaged archives.

  5. redc1c4

    #Failifornia already has a firearms registry, and they already use it to seize firearms from anyone who them deem to be a “prohibited person”, a category that’s getting easier and easier to fall into, even w/o any change in your personal status.

    i’m fully expecting raids in the future when the retroactive banning of previously compliant EBRs takes effect and people refuse to register them as ordered.

    of course, i’m also seeing a lot of consignment EBRs in the shops as well, so some folks are just getting rid of them…

    1. Aesop

      For reference, when they were first banned here in 1989, there were an estimated 100K black rifle named weapons, all semi-auto, in private hands. Less than 2K were ever registered with the state as “assault weapons”.
      Once legal workarounds like goofy stocks and bullet button mag releases became commonplace, an estimated 1-2M EBRs have been sold hereabouts in the last decade-plus.
      If so many as 2K of those ever get registered this time, I will be astonished.
      (That’s assuming they even allow that, which as of this moment is far from clear.)

      At a loss of only 1 cop per confiscatory visit (and some of us will prove much better marksmen than Herr Wolfgang P., above), they’re going to need quite a number of new cops, which takes them 12-36 months@ to recruit, select, train, and deploy) and I just don’t see it happening. After they lose five or ten, the popular sentiment will be to go all Dorner/BLM, and start picking the rest off pro-actively.
      And as a rule, the average gun owner has about 5 times the tactical training and weapons-handling experience as the average cop, so that won’t go well for them either. I’d guesstimate that more than a miniscule fraction would be itching for the opportunity on both sides, and the police will be playing Custer to the general population’s Sitting Bull & Crazy Horse, for some decades.

      All they’re liable to do is hope to get them onesy-twosey, at traffic stops, incidental to arrests for other things, etc., which will leave 2M EBRs in the hands of the hoi polloi, and the first attempt at actual confiscation, for the overwhelming majority, won’t be a cue to oil their gardens, it will be the signal that it’s time to take them out and use them.
      At that point, there aren’t enough federal troops and police combined nationwide just for CA, even were they able to surge the entirety here, to do that job. And that’s overlooking that a sizeable number wouldn’t comply with that order either.

      My sense is that a majority of gun owners have been pushed about as far as Leviathan can go here, and any further attempt is going to result in widespread adoption of Rule 308.
      I could be wrong, but all that’s at stake is open rebellion amongst 10% of the population of the US, and seeing how well the government here or anywhere has done with simple rioting (i.e. total impotence), the prospects for continued rule of law once open conflict breaks out bodes poorly for the survival of anyone in government beyond a week or two after festivities begin in earnest.

      And most folks would probably take the opportunity to clean house of the criminal element as well, a la Committees of Vigilance, which have some historical basis in the local area, IIRC. With the sudden lack of police statewide, that will be less an opportunity than a functional necessity anyways.

      If they want Sarajevo and Belfast on a statewide scale forever, they’re welcome to try. The body politic needs an enema, and this is as good a place for it to start as anywhere, I suppose. If anything, we’d probably have to send away to Oregon and Washington for enough timber for the gallows and guillotines afterwards, and the functional loss of two major naval bases and PacFleet homeports plus half the Navy’s training capabilities, 5 airfields, 4 Marine installations, a baker’s dozen other installations, Vandenburg AFB, and the National Training Center just might be a wee bit inconvenient to the national defense apparatus for some good time. Fts. Hood and Carson are three states away, apiece, so the prospects for reinforcements are slim and distant, on a good day. I expect the military would either sit things out, or be in the position of a US embassy in a country undergoing revolution: all dependents pulled in, and all gates shut UFN.

      Half the US military, working for a decade plus, haven’t proven able to fully subdue two countries about the same size or population, nor ever could. They can bomb it to rubble, but you can’t subjugate a people that simply won’t have it, and the reckoning afterwards is always harsher than what was planned for.

      Interesting times, depending on whether TPTB really want to go full retard, or not.

      My sense is that would be a vote for “Not”, but they’ve surprised me before.

      1. Jim Scrummy

        “Interesting times, depending on whether TPTB really want to go full retard, or not.”

        Never, never, never, underestimate the stupidity of the gubmint to go full retard. Much of the civilian gubmint workforce is inhabited by full retards. I should also state the obvious, that most politicians are fully retarded. This is the starting point and it only goes downhill from there in regards to the stupidity.

        Like you stated, interesting times. Buy more ammo.

      2. staghounds

        Historically, gun owners turn them in or just keep quiet. The confiscators accept the turn ins, declare general compliance, accept victory, charge the people they happen to find violating, and that’s it. I haven’t seen anything that indicates that U. S. gun owners will be any different.

        1. Aesop


          And where would that have been, staghounds?
          Do Lexington Commons or Concord Bridge ring any bells, historically?

          Just wondering.

          My sense is that if anyone turns them in, it’ll be muzzle first, smoking, and in a pile of spent brass.

          At this point, I don’t even see more than a fraction ever even getting registered in the first place.

          1. Boat Guy

            Agree “historically” and from a “sense” that proper-law abing citizens have been pushed as far as many are likely to allow. At this point we’ve lost much of our birthright and there’s no more to lose passively. We might lose after being beaten in the field but many folks will take that deal rather than “go gently into that good night”. Gotta die of something.

          2. Mike

            Regarding the ‘average gun owner’s level of training and experience’ being five times that of police officers… It’s been a while since you’ve been to a public range, hasn’t it? I can assure you that the average gun owner is no better than the average police officer, and frequently worse.

            I’d say out of every hundred current gun owners in the US, less than ten have any formal training on firearms, and that was probably from either the military or the boy scouts. In most cases, it was decades ago. A high percentage of American gun owners probably go months or years between shooting sessions. My brother in law, for example- he’s owned a .22 LR rifle for years, and shoots it about every two years. This summer, he bought his first centerfire rifle, an AR. He’s shot it once so far, at some cans in the desert. I explained to him the process for zeroing it beforehand; when he got back from shooting I asked him if he had any problems with zeroing and he told me that he had skipped it so he and his son could get to blasting cans.

            Based off of my experiences as a firearms instructor, I’d say that maybe three out of a hundred gun owners actually pay for a firearms training class that’s not mandated by law like some states require for a CCW license. Maybe one out of those three will take more than one class.

          3. Aesop

            Au contraire, Mike.

            I’ve been to the police officers’ training ranges.
            The average cop is twice as frightening as the average gun owner, chiefly because the average gun owner doesn’t think he was gifted from Mt. Olympus with skills that would shame John Wayne, Audie Murphy, and Annie Oakley, because badge.

            But when you find a YouTube video of some mook shooting himself in the foot moments after declaring that, solely by virtue of his badge, he is the “only one qualified” to handle a Glock fowty, give a holler. I can always use a laugh.

        1. BP

          I agree. But comparing apples to apples, a lot of the donut crowd forgot what they were taught “decades ago”. Sworn officers is a pretty loose term.

      3. The Annoyed Man

        I think what we saw happen in Connecticut is a microcosm of what would happen nationally in any gun registration scheme. It would largely (and quietly, because the liberal media, by which I mean the media, would not want to encourage it) be ignored by the majority of gun owners, putting the ball squarely back into the fedgov’t’s court. In then, lacking the manpower to enforce it themselves, they would enlist the state and local LE agencies in the effort. I can’t speak for other states, but I think I can state with some certainty that in Texas, where I live, that would not get much of a positive response from law enforcement. A family member of mine who is a local cop has already told me that if it ever came to that, he’d resign…..and that a lot of his brother officers feel the same way.

        The only way that the fedgov’t can enforce such a thing and make it stick is by use of military assets. And while I’m sure that there are some who would just follow orders, there are enough who would not that the military wou,d be facing a mutiny of gargantuan proportions. I don’t want to ever diminish the willingness of the fedgov’t to disarm the population if it thinks it can, but I am fairly Confident that it cannot…..at least not on any meaningfully large scale.

        On the other hand, I’m an old man and I’ve had a good life. I don’t mind dying in a pile of spent brass if it will help motivate others to resist, and because I know my fate when I shuffle off this mortal coil. The choice to go out that way will have been mine, and mine alone. They can try to take my life, but they cannot confiscate the fullness of my heart, or take away my liberty so long as I am willing to choose the time, place, and manner of my own death.

  6. rc

    Yeah, this is the main part of the process of Europeanization of America that our nomenklatura want….and are getting. We’re in for a rough ride.

  7. Pingback: WeaponsMan: “Confiscate This” | Western Rifle Shooters Association

  8. 6pounder

    HAHAHAHA! “S” that was hilarious! I’ve got to print that out!
    Aesop, I think you are right on the mark with your analysis. They just don’t have the resources nor the will. The Britons didn’t either.
    I’ll be making some more chips on the lathe tomorrow I think.

  9. Old, Cranky And Armed

    “they do this because they can do it, because there is no price attached.”

    It looks as if Wolfgang P. managed to attach a price.

    All it takes is one-for-one. The confiscation regime cannot afford to make such trades for long, as they will soon run out of thugs (either through perforation or through career change). Of course your point is taken, that “upstream” targets provide a better benefit, e.g. something like what Carl Drega managed; but one takes advantage of the opportunities that are presented – ideally with some thought and discernment applied to the process.

    We cannot live forever. The best end to a useful life is a useful death; something to think about. Certainly no older person should tolerate any attempt at confiscation, no matter what labels may be attached to him subsequently. One of the few benefits of getting old is not giving a shit about such things.

  10. ghostsniper

    They won’t be going door to door as they’re too cowardly for that.

    A lot of them will get killed if they try, and they know it.

    Instead, everybody will receive a certified letter in the mail stating that you must turn your firearms and ammo in to the nearest law enforcement establishment and you will receive a tax voucher for $200 for each hand gun, $300 for each shotgun, $400 for each long gun, $100 for any amount of ammo or reloading products.

    When you renew any license you will sign a document stating you possess no firearms.

    When you enroll your child in a school you will sign that document.

    The banks and the state and federal tax collectors will require you to sign that document.

    To collect gov’t payouts you will sign that document.

    When you try to get medical service or fill a prescription for medications you will sign that document.

    The media will broadcast a message continuously that if you are caught with a firearm or supplies you will be incarcerated at hard labor for a period of no less than 10 years in a federal penitentiary.

    The media will also run PSA’s stating that a reward of $1000 will be given to anyone providing direct information that leads to the conviction of all violators of the gun ban.

    Your family and friends and neighbors will become Quislings and turn your ass in.

    In 1 year the entire country will have become completely pussified and all of the honorable patriots will have been exterminated.

    Criminals from top to bottom will reign supreme.

    All licenses will eventually expire and your bank account will (be seized) no longer work.

    If you have children in the public schools they will not be enrolled the following year.

    All of your insurances will expire and you will not be able to see a medical professional or get prescriptions filled.

    True, some die hards may elude the sieve a little longer.

    That is when phase 2 comes into play.

    Phase 2 includes access to foods, municipal and private utilities.

    They will systematically make possessing a firearm very difficult for most people.

    See, they have unlimited resources, time, and power, and you don’t.

    They will win, they always do.

    The only way they can be beaten is for them to trip over their own dicks, and they will, as they always do.

    Leviathan is a very large drunken ogre stumbling about, bent on destroying all it encounters and the best anyone can do is stay out of it’s way and let it kill itself, for if you get to close (to kill it) you run the risk of it falling on you, and when it falls everyone all around it falls to, like a sinking ship it pulls everything close, under.

    1. Old, Cranky And Armed

      I have read this defeatist claptrap before. The problem with such a scheme is that if it were viable, it would already have been tried. It’s all nonsense. People will have the sense to understand that whatever such games may be played, it is still a declaration of war. Those who try to implement it will be killed anyway. In fact more such people will be killed than with the old SWAT tactic, because it is hard to take a SWAT team out when you are waking up at 3AM with a flash-bang in the bedroom. It’s much easier to knock a lone, offensive bureaucrat off. People will simply lie when they do the certification you speak of, or simply do without the license that requires it. No, you have not found the magic formula that tyrants may use to disarm irate and dangerous Americans, sorry. Go back to your friends at Salon.

      1. The Annoyed Man

        Old, Cranky, and Armed, can I get an amen, brother? What will happen is that honorable cops will either resign or refuse to obey orders. Then some org like anonymous or Wikileaks will get their hands on and publish a list of home addresses, email addresses, and phone numbers of those LEOs who stay on and follow confiscation orders, and they’ll get offed one by one as they come and go from home, church, and the grocery store. And I can see a lot of those killings being done with old Mosin Nagants and Carcanos with iron sights, which will be left at the scene just to make the point to the authorities that they can outlaw all the EBRs they want to, but a determined patriot with a cheap 100 year old rifle can still nail them to the barn door at will.

    2. Aesop

      Horseapples and chicken droppings.

      The first (and last) Quisling to collect a reward would find it spent on his own funeral arrangements.
      Then they’d go after his family.

      Night letters in every mailbox would lay out the brief but interesting life expectancy for that sort of silliness, from the top officials on down. The vacancy list for political and civil office would look like the phonebook.
      It only took the IRA a few kneecappings to get the point across that snitching folks out to TPTB was not a longevity-inducing career path, and you can’t build a Green Zone big enough to shelter the special ones once they unleash that level of tyranny.

      It wouldn’t take long before signing letters attesting no gun ownership would be the biggest inside joke in creation.
      How have gun buy-backs worked out for the idiots in gubmint? Total clown show.
      Perps turn in $2 junk cap guns, take the cash, and go buy real gats.
      The public does the same, and upgrades from ring-of-death Saturday Night Specials to Glocks and the like.

      The media will broadcast no such message about hard labor, because helpfully, the CA state courts can’t assign federal prison terms. Hell, they can’t even execute the 700+ convicts on Death Row now. Trying to incarcerate 2M gun owners?? Stop it, my sides hurt from laughter. The courts would cease to function in about an hour, and the wait for all other trials would be accounted in dog years: anyone caught for anything else would be released without trial, owing to the statute of limitations.

      And the feds learned a hard lesson about gun crime enforcement the morning the BATFE hit Waco. It still leaves a mark.
      If I have ten guns today, and anybody bans them all tomorrow, how many guns do I have afterwards? Still ten.
      Molon labe.

      What’ll be hard will be wearing a badge and uniform the week after.
      There’s a reason other countries have secret police.
      Public police take one in the back of the head too often.

      And the first time someone decides Officer Friendly’s wife and kids are on the menu (and they will), the jig is up.
      The police will shoot their overlords once it becomes clear than enforcement is a suicide mission, with a 0% chance of ever collecting a pension, and that their families will be strung up alike without remorse.

      “And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?… The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin’s thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If…if…We didn’t love freedom enough. And even more – we had no awareness of the real situation…. We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.” ― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

      You can wait for the ship to sink.
      Before that happens, I’m storming the bridge, shooting the crew, and hoisting the black flag.
      What are they going to do then, say “Stop!” again sternly, or just pass another law against that??

      There are 30M people in this state, and >50% are gun owners.
      That war is over by 10AM the day it’s launched, and the gun banners lose.
      And are helpfully 10-15M votes shy for opposing the repeal of that level of nonsense, and for some years henceforth as well.

      Social Justice Warrior = Someone Too Stupid To Major In Mathematics

    3. Tierlieb

      Ghostsniper, ignore the comments from those that call this defeatist crap and worse. I recently did a similar comment on another blog and was told the same things “impossible”, “unfeasible” and all that. People with a lot fewer guns, a lot less “been there, done that” and a much smaller track record of gun right work told me I was the enemy. You heard that about yourself already.

      … and you know you hit the right spot when people start swinging blindly.

      What nobody seemed to notice is that nearly every step you mentioned has already been successfully used before in other countries. There’s a lot of other, similar techniques, too – the last 70 years in Europe are proof.

      Let’s face it: As soon as you build a society that depends on handouts from the government (healthcare, school system, infrastructure – hey, someone wanna talk about the Interstate Commerce Clause?), the government got impressive leverage not just against the gun owner (might be steadfast), but against their families (not so much) and their neighbours (definitely not). It’s commendable that readers here think the US citizens to be special, but rationally spoken, the US majority is quite fond of electing Obamas just like their European counterparts would.

      Shooting the police, the bureaucrats and even the politicians will not matter. The can be replaced and will, as long as the majority is convinced they do a good job. Only long term social change will help. That is, of course, a much less titillating fantasy and much harder to do. The other side has more experience with it and by now, the system supports itself (until it runs out of other people’s money).

      1. Aesop


        Because we’re Europeans here too, presumably?

        The feds couldn’t confiscate so much as a herd of cows lately.
        They got chewed up by women and children in Waco twenty years ago, when law enforcement had more of a reputation to fall back on, and they had to resort to siege warfare to solve that problem, and they’re still eating crap over that.
        In fact, that was their Flight 93 moment. The word is out that if they try it now, and it takes longer than half an hour, they’ve already lost the argument.
        As it is, the police, local and federal, would have to do everything but have everyone’s baby to maybe, possibly, get back so much as 1/10th of the collective reputation they’ve squandered in the last 2 years, in maybe a generation or so.

        If you could imagine (and it would be imaginary) 99% compliance with confiscatory nonsense, but even 1% of the gun owners here demurred, and chalked up a box score as humbly equal to Herr Wolfgang’s, the battle is over in the opening volley. We’d run through the entire apparatus before anyone even needed to reload.
        We won’t even get into the inevitable aftermath, wherein the overlord authors of such nonsense are dragged in by their short hairs for a public beating on live TV, prior to the show trials.

        One mouthbreather shut down most of LAX for three days, singlehanded.
        Two such paralyzed the DC metro area for months, and another witless pair had them combing Boston suburbs in a full on frenzy.
        Hereabouts, one mediocre ex-cop generated a statewide manhunt that paralyzed and pre-occupied all other law enforcement activities for most of a week, just to go after him.
        A supply clerk, whose sole combat experience was probably playing Call Of Duty, took out 5 Dallas cops, and it took a SWAT team and high explosives just to collect his scalp.
        The police here freak out when they lose one officer. They don’t “take casualties”.
        Hell, we had actual military members here that chickened out at the prospect of a war back in 2003. If policing becomes not a chance of getting gunned down, but a certainty, you couldn’t fill the ranks even if they offered CEO salaries to do it.

        Should TPTB go full retard hereabouts, they don’t have enough people even if they could recall the draftees back to 1916 from national cemeteries sufficient for the notional undertaking.

        The only reason to even attempt it would be the Longshanks response from Braveheart, in order for the .gov to proactively lessen the burden of state pension obligations, as LEO death benefits would be cheaper than long-term retirement pensions.

        If they get to that point, the new meaning of “no knock” warrants will be the ones where they pen-whip warrant service, hang around the donut shop for a hour to make it look good, and report back to HQ that “nobody was home, so we left”.

        Perhaps folks on the other side of the pond are content to be willingly and dutifully merkeled by their overlords.
        Here, not so much. To just about a 180-degrees out certainty.

        The entire notion is farcically far-fetched, and the quota for that this decade was used up in the 10th inning of Game 7 last night.

        1. Mike

          The people that took over the Malheur Wildlife Refuge in Oregon were acquitted last week. A clear message to the government from the people of eastern Oregon. Jury nullification is real.

          Commentators in a number of libera/left leaning publications were in hysterics last week over it. I’m laughing at them.

        2. ratchet

          “Don’t get cocky.”

          These people are evil, not stupid. If something is not working for them, they will change tactics. They have other options (and so do we).

    4. Pericles

      Wolfgang P. provides one example of a man who didn’t do that. The real question is how many more Wolfgang P’s are out there. I’ll wager the number is greater than zero.

  11. mitch

    If what is coming out of NYPD right now is true, that house-cleaning may have just started.

  12. DSM

    Whatever is coming is still a little ways off I think. The water is being tested constantly to gauge reaction as we pass through more of their intelligence prep of the battlefield. Think about the proposed M855 ban so many months ago; random and unprovoked but the amount of ears the perked up from Congress gave them a benchmark count on choking supply. Owners as a group have been marginalized and will continue to be.
    What they want next is to trip the right trigger to get one to a few groups to take action prematurely so they’ll “have no choice but to act for the safety and security of the people.” They want a crisis to squash.

    1. Old, Cranky And Armed

      It’s amazing the paranoid fantasies that people will conjure – as if some special little trick is all that is needed to disarm us.

      Whenever I read such defeatist nonsense, I take it as someone who knows he will turn his guns in at the slightest sign of disapproval from the ruling clowns, and who wants to put his justifications for submission out there just to make sure he is safe from them as time goes on.

      Here’s a little Sam Adams for such shrinking violets:
      “Contemplate the mangled bodies of your countrymen, and then say, ‘What should be the reward of such sacrifices?’ Bid us and our posterity bow the knee, supplicate the friendship, and plough, and sow, and reap, to glut the avarice of the men who have let loose on us the dogs of war to riot in our blood and hunt us from the face of the earth? If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.”

      1. DSM

        Defeatist? I’m making a prediction in how they will roll to further their agenda and nothing more. I think you’re seeing things that aren’t there my friend. Paranoid fantasies indeed.

        1. McThag

          The implication you’re making is that we should never rise to provocation because it’s playing into what they want.

          If you don’t intend to be defeatist, you shouldn’t be repeating other people word-for-word who definitely are defeatist.

  13. Good one

    Attrition is a motherf’r. Although the reality is the next gens will have different perspective. They’ll Prob be okay with how things will be. Example? Example is us. With all the knowledge, tech, and experience that is available today, still!… decay is rampant and accepted and also ignored. Enjoy the good ol days and pass the buck… Again. Get yours! Mr user. How to get a community or more to lead by example? One or a few is not enough.

    One would think there would be some super humans by now. The reality is the planet is just saturated with humans.

    1. Boat Guy

      Beg to differ. Some of our progeny – and THEIR progeny – are being educated properly and inculcated with the words and the spirit of the Founders; these are far more successful in every fieldr than their union-indoctrinated guvmint-skool peers.

  14. JohnMc

    Painfully, sadly its a matter of numbers. 100m +- individuals vs 3m of ‘Them’. The gun holders don’t even have to win every engagement, just enough. Couple that with Psyops on the family and quickly the men in black will fade, preferring to protect kith and kin rather than the state.

    Question is are there enough of the 100m willing to shoot? Lenin gambled on that question and won.

  15. Josey Wales

    Americans are not Germans. If Muslim men were running around in groups sexually assaulting 1000 American women on New Years Eve as happened in Koln last year, there would be blood in the streets. Theirs.

    Consider the downstream effects of Ruby Ridge and Waco. Police actions there triggered the most serious loss of life in a terrorist attack on American soil up to that time, and not yet surpassed by any other act of domestic terrorism to date. In both cases we are talking about “unsympathetic actors”, a white separatist and a religious kook, neither of whom turned out to be guilty of all the charges that were used to justify police actions against them. I would predict that after the first few otherwise respectable Americans were gunned down by the police resisting the confiscation of their firearms, the police would see (OK I mean feel) some very serious blow back. Policemen have a house they live at with their family too. Being billy bad ass when you’re all geared up and can call all your friends to come help you is one thing, worrying about your family being firebombed in their sleep or being gunned down as you step out your door (or putter around in your garage with the door up, real world example) is a different animal completely. As a former CO I can tell you I never worried much about inmates inside (I probably should have, my scar collection would be smaller) but I sure as shit took their threats to have friends on the outside look me up very seriously indeed. Dying fighting real criminals is one thing, being used as “a dumb animal” (Henry Kissinger’s description of military folks, and by extension, law enforcement) by political scum for the advancement of their agenda is quite another.

    Policemen are easy targets. They are readily identifiable and the vehicles they drive are not even mildly bullet resistant. (Remember that video of all the vehicle drive-by’s in Iraq?) The police come when you call them. Hard to think of better circumstances to spring a successful ambush than that. In virtually every incident where police officers were deliberately targeted by an armed offender they were all killed. ALL of them. 2-3 at a time. Usually just sitting in their car or eating lunch somewhere. The list of incidents is, sadly, not a short one. And none of them ever had a chance. Something to keep in mind.

    After 15 years of the GWOT, there are a LOT of guys (and girls) out there with military training and real combat experience. I have yet to meet a combat arms veteran who considered the average police officer to be his equal if it came down to force on force. The police need to consider very seriously their chances of surviving the process of forcible confiscation against a well armed and even moderately trained opponent. “Dallas”. That guy wasn’t even a grunt, he was able trade his own life for five of theirs, and it took a bomb equipped robot to bring him down. His motivation was of course bullshit, but that is not relevant to this discussion. How many times could that agency survive a similar day?

    Sir Robert Peel was the founder of modern policing. There is some doubt among scholars that Sir Robert Peel actually enunciated any of his nine principles of policing himself — some researchers say they were formulated in 1829 by the two first commissioners of London’s Metropolitan Police Department.
    PRINCIPLE 1 “The basic mission for which the police exist is to prevent crime and disorder.”
    PRINCIPLE 2 “The ability of the police to perform their duties is dependent upon public approval of police actions.”
    PRINCIPLE 3 “Police must secure the willing cooperation of the public in voluntary observance of the law to be able to secure and maintain the respect of the public.”
    PRINCIPLE 4 “The degree of cooperation of the public that can be secured diminishes proportionately to the necessity of the use of physical force.”
    PRINCIPLE 5 “Police seek and preserve public favor not by catering to the public opinion but by constantly demonstrating absolute impartial service to the law.”
    PRINCIPLE 6 “Police use physical force to the extent necessary to secure observance of the law or to restore order only when the exercise of persuasion, advice and warning is found to be insufficient.”
    PRINCIPLE 7 “Police, at all times, should maintain a relationship with the public that gives reality to the historic tradition that the police are the public and the public are the police; the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full-time attention to duties which are incumbent on every citizen in the interests of community welfare and existence.”
    PRINCIPLE 8 “Police should always direct their action strictly towards their functions and never appear to usurp the powers of the judiciary.”
    PRINCIPLE 9 “The test of police efficiency is the absence of crime and disorder, not the visible evidence of police action in dealing with it.”

    Modern American Police Officers should not readily discard any of these principles, and in the subject at hand, would do so at considerable risk to themselves, and possibly their families as well. Imagine what a man would be willing to do to avenge a “mistake” which wound up costing the life of his wife or child. A man who feels he has nothing left to lose, or that his cause is worth dying for and has reconciled himself to his own death is not an opponent you ever want to face. Such a man with training and experience even less so.

    “After the first one the rest are free”. – H. Bowman

    1. Cap'n Mike

      PRINCIPLE 7 “Police, at all times, should maintain a relationship with the public that gives reality to the historic tradition that the police are the public and the public are the police; the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full-time attention to duties which are incumbent on every citizen in the interests of community welfare and existence.”

      This one has always been my favorite and the one a lot of todays cops dont get.

  16. LFMayor

    What happens when there’s nothing left to lose? That guy in Norway didn’t go for expendables. He didn’t go for mid level desk pilots. He didn’t even go for the heads of snakes, instead he tore out their hearts by killing their progeny.

    How bad do you want to win? How bad do they?

    1. james n

      Pretty dark talk guys. I’m old enough to remember the tail end of the troubles in Northern Ireland, when the police ( our Royal Ulster Constabulary now long gone and renamed ) were considered legitimate targets by the Republican paramilitary groups. The police lived in protected and fortified houses, kept their occupation secret, checked under their cars every morning for explosives, worked only in areas far from where they lived, but the various Republican groups still managed to kill 319 and injure 9000 officers throughout the years. By 1983 the RUC was the most dangerous police force in the world in which to serve. Many parts of the province were so dangerous for the police, they could only enter them with Army assistance. Nevertheless the government found it virtually impossible to protect them, not to mention civil servants, ministers, judges, and all the other public figures who lived in fear of car bombs or gun attempts.
      All this in a country with very few firearms , I can’t even begin to think of the consequences somewhere like the states, should the free folk decide to take up arms against their would be oppressors. It wouldn’t be pretty. I have however read Matthew Bracken’s Enemies series. Just hope it’s not as prophetic as it seems. Or that too many on the left have read and got any ideas.

        1. Hognose Post author

          Heh, not only have I read ’em, I was reading ’em as Matt was writing ’em. At the time I knew exactly two SEALs, both former/retired officers, both had books out, and Matt and the other guy were at odds with one another. Both great guys from my POV, I guess it’s a frogman thing, so I don’t understand.

          1. Boat Guy

            It is certainly a “frogman thing”; though others are not immune, they are also not as predisposed.

  17. Jimmy the Saint

    “They don’t care how many Untersturmführers get capped in the process.”

    Until they start running out of them, that is.

  18. Texas dude

    I feel for the German cops. No, really. Sovereign citizens are no joke and are dangerous folks to deal with.

    A few years back, I had a German Police commander foisted upon me during a training session and later during a busy Friday night patrol shift. There was the usual cultural dissonance; he couldn’t believe how spread out things were, that we used rifles all the time, that my wife carried a Glock in her purse and how spicy our food was. And that we had guns, all over, everywhere.

    A couple hours in and we were fighting some drunk on a major highway. Pretty much any cop shift, anywhere, ever (pretty sure there was a log entry from Hammurabi’s troops that said “Found drunk. Fought drunk. Arrested same.”) . After the dust settled. He (and I) came to the realization that police work is somewhat universal. Cops tend to be very conservative folks and our goal, day in and day out, Europe or the (civilized parts of the Americas) was to protect the “normals” from the amoral sociopaths of the world. They don’t want to know, they don’t want to see, that is what they pay US to handle. And cops from free countries (or at least moderately free) tend to prefer an armed populace. Makes life easier. And I wish you “normals” would shoot more burglars. Easy clearance on a Part I crime better year end crime stats and shorter report. Just sayin.

    Oh. and Germans really appreciate good Tex-Mex. Sausages and cabbage only get you so far.

    He was also a German gun nut. He envied our freedom and the only two things preventing him emigrating on the spot were his wife and the five year residency requirement before he could obtain citizenship and go back to cop work. We need more immigrants like that. And he bought lots of nice accessories for his handful of legal guns. But no pistol weapons lights, because that is apparently a felony in Deutschland, even for cops. Did we really liberate those guys in 45?

    On a more serious note, Cops on the east and west coasts are in a more precarious political situation than those of us in the free states. But there will be a degree of foot dragging and passive-aggressive non compliance even in those places if they are called to round up previously legal guns. Look at NY and CT so far since their stupid and unconstitutional bans.

    In the free states…outright rebellion. They have to get our guns first. And my wife isn’t watching her capital walk out the door without a vigorous fight. And I welcome my Polezei comrade in arms on that day. Spare bedroom is free, and I have lots of spare long guns, even if they aren’t cool for patrol work in Die Bayern.

    Also, since this is a first post, I greatly appreciate this blog and the high quality content and discussion. I have been following it for a few years and it’s a daily stop. You have even attracted the attention of other conservative blogs on some of your recent posts and you have a lot of people’s attention. My Congressman mentioned you (and while he is a politician, he’s a gun guy, so I’ll give him that). Please continue the great work and bring back the Saturday movie reviews. I need recommendations on good stuff to watch on my days off.

    1. Hognose Post author

      I want to do the movie reviews, it’s just that they take time. First, I gotta watch a movie… Then I gotta write it up, find the pictures, etc.

      ETA — Jeez, I should have said this but it’s 0120 on a day that started before 0600 — thanks for reading and for commenting, and best regards to your Congressman.

  19. Kirk

    Thirty years ago, the idea of gay marriage and openly gay servicemembers was pretty much deemed to be two things that would “never happen”.

    It happened.

    How did it happen? Thirty years of propagandizing and “normalizing” changed the culture, at least to a degree and in some influential parts of the population. Was this a consciously planned thing, “made to happen”? You could argue that it was.

    Why is this worth bringing up, here? Because of the fact that this particular social change is one that was “made to happen”, and the odds are very good that some folks are looking at that and going “Hmmm… How do we apply this to the realm of gun control?”.

    The jack-booted thugs aren’t going to go door-to-door, even in Connecticut. The people like George Soros that are behind this all, financing it, aren’t that stupid. What’s going to happen first is a murder of the “gun culture” in popular culture, a large-scale “othering” that will enable the same situation happening with firearms ownership that happened with the norming of the gays. The analogy isn’t entirely the same, but the process will be. News media, entertainment, all that crap, will be mobilized to make firearms ownership and self-defense anathema, and despised.

    Look what happened to George Zimmerman, for examples. Make that sort of treatment routine for everyone who defends themselves with a firearm, and the majority of us are going to do what that cop in Chicago did: Refuse to draw her weapon and kill her attacker, accepting her ass-beating as being a better option than being vilified in the press and dragged through the muck.

    You want to stop this? Well, I think you’d be smarter to target the right people; the man you want isn’t Officer Stupid, the guy who can’t see past his current paycheck and pension plan. The guys you want are ones named Bloomberg and Soros, and you need to address them in a manner to make them leave your liberties the hell alone.

    These men aren’t interested in either your welfare or your liberty; they’re interested in power, raw and visceral, over their fellow man. The Bloomberg and Soros types are your Homeowners Association busybodies, writ large, seeking power over you and yours for “your own good”, because it makes them feel good. Deal with them, or be prepared to be dealt with as those who objected to the normalization of sexual perversion in the name of “diversity”.

    Can’t wait to discover what they’re going to make “normal” next. Is it going to be pedophilia? Beastiality? Polygamy? Who knows…

    Those of you who’ve read your Gibbon might want to crack his tome, yet again. I reckon we’re about midway through the death of the Republic, right about now, with the rise of the oligarchs. Is Trump a Gracchi? Perhaps… I wonder what form our “man on a horse” will take? Surely not someone like Anthony Weiner, leading the way with naked selfies of his narcissistic ass…

    1. Aesop

      You’re overlooking that “it” happened because of judicial fiat, after losing in every state wherein it was proposed.

      As to making acclimation to gun-banning a process, good luck with that: as of this week, support for banning anything is at all-time lows, and the map of shall-issue and Constitutional (no permits needed for anything whatsoever) carry gets redder by the year.

      Frankly, pedophilia and polygamy have better statistical chances than weapons bans do, anytime in the next generation.

    2. bloke_from_ohio

      I watched the Chicago cop video and it was a soup sandwich. While the response in the gun and LEO communities seems to be confined to outrage at the media, we can do better. Complaining about liability fears hamstringing the officer does not make cops safer. Simply put, such complaints won’t change anything. Instead, lets use it as a learning opportunity so everyone can all collectively avoid both shooting people and getting their heads smacked into concrete. There is less paperwork, hassle, and injuries to be had by all that way.

      Possible questions to start the discussion:
      -How did the officer/s lose the dominant position (in ground fighting parlance)?
      -Did the officers execute their training properly?
      -Are the tactics, training, and tools the police use good enough to deal with the situation or should they be changed?
      -Does the department have PT and training standards that prepare their officers to deal with these situations? If not, why not?
      -How can other officers avoid the mistakes that were made assuming there were any?
      -What training if any do police get when the Taser fails and is it good enough?
      -Is there a better way to help an officer in the situation the injured cop found herself in besides what they did?

    3. Old, Cranky And Armed

      “How did it happen? Thirty years of propagandizing and “normalizing” changed the culture, at least to a degree and in some influential parts of the population. Was this a consciously planned thing, “made to happen”? You could argue that it was.”

      Or you could argue that people generally just decided not to be jerks because of another person’s sexual preferences. (Note: government “help” in this respect, just like Affirmative Action, slowed this process, rather than advanced it.)

      They have been demonizing us for decades. That sort of thing only works when the thing they are attacking is anti-social and irresponsible. Gun owners have always believed the reverse. That is why gun control is dying, other than as a fantasy of the ruling class. How many states now have “constitutional carry”? Hell, the leftist pols cannot even keep their own constituencies on board; even liberals are now buying guns.

      Americans are different because the cat was let out of the bag in colonial days, when vast segments of the population could see the utility of arming themselves. There is no putting it back in. Americans are also different because so many ex-military are in the population, people with a lot of trigger time and killing. Americans are different because we have concealed carry; what other country has that? Finally, a much lower percentage of Americans are the opposite of “Good Germans”; anything the rulers tell them to do, they go out and do the opposite. So yes, Americans are different.

      BTW the Australian compliance rate is estimated to be around 20%.

      1. Old, Cranky And Armed

        I meant, ‘a much lower percentage of Americans are “Good Germans” ‘…

    4. John Distai

      Weiner is a “Golum” – a sad, seemingly inconsequential creature that in their own madness, may ultimately prevent Sauron from obtaining the ring. It’s beautiful.

      Kirk – good to see you again!

    1. lineman

      Shit then there must be a whole lot of guns out there then or my area is filled with overachievers;)

  20. Brad

    Aside from the obvious reasons, I think the primary reason Hillary is so hot for repealing the PLCAA is she understands the impracticality of mass gun confiscation. I think the Left has given up on dramatic gun control and is playing a long game instead. To that end they are working on public opinion and trying to choke off legal commerce.

    (Of course even those strategies are doomed to failure, since they are strategies which have also failed in other national experiments with other kinds of prohibition)

    There’s been some mention of open defiance evidenced by massive non-compliance with the California law mandating registration of so-called “assault weapons”, and as much as I would like to believe defiance is the main reason, plain dumb ignorance of the law is more likely a greater factor. In places like California enforcement of old bans or new bans will probably amount to nothing more than confiscations during chance encounters with police and even rarer prosecutions.

    Of course that doesn’t mean another Waco style disaster couldn’t happen again, particularly after Bloody Hillary has gained her throne. If a McVeigh revenge inevitably follows a Waco massacre, I hope the next McVeigh is less reckless and more discriminating in target selection, for the sake of everyone.

  21. Martin

    Personally, I am somewhat torn on that issue. Yes, mostly I agree with the article. On the other hand, and thanks to our regional history, the word Reich simply has the nazi stink attached to it in our lands.

    I must admit that I was surprised that in general they go back to the Weimar republic. But when I think about it – why bother? The history is written and borders have been set. They’re not getting Koenisgberg or Breslau back just like the Poles aren’t getting Lwow…

    1. Hognose Post author

      I believe that the westernmost ethnic-Czech majority town in Bohemia was Domažlice, which the Austrians called Taus. (There were good gunsmiths there in the 17th and 18th century).

      In the early 20th Century, there were numerous fond ideas about central planning. Gun control was one of these. No surprise to see the Fabian socialists of Weimar take it up before the National Socialists took it the next logical step.

      Interwar Czechoslovakia had some gun control. There were tiered licenses, and a may-issue permit was required to purchase a short-barreled pistol, which is why you sometimes see interwar pistols with Czechoslovak proofs and 180mm (7″) barrels. They look funny, but were an end run around the law.

  22. Pingback: Weapons Man: “Confiscate This!” | The Defensive Training Group

  23. Keith

    I have to admit to being conflicted on all the discussion about cops.

    Both my parents were cops in the 1970-80’s in the case of my mother and 1960-80’s in the case of my father. I knew each day they put on the uniform they might not come back. And there are two city police officers on my street now and a county deputy sheriff just one street over. They are just regular folks when not in uniform. They mow there grass. There kids play outside. Just like I did all those years ago.

    Yet what will be the reaction when confiscation happens? Since my ex left me this past July I’m planning on moving in the spring to Virginia. Currently in North Carolina.

    As far as assault rifle’s are concerned there is only one rifle that should be called that and it is the StG-44 named by Hitler in preference to MP-44. Everything else if generically named is a self loading carbine or rifle or select fire carbine or rifle or full auto carbine or rifle.

    If the MSM and Cosmos/Tranzis/Progressives do start a long term campaign aiming at confiscation you will start seeing books, TV, movies, internet all start showing us a crazed marginalized baby killing homicidal maniacs. It will start small and on the fringe but if yelled loud enough long enough will be accepted by the majority. They will start by taking teaching about the Bill of Rights in school and eventually those kids will become voting age and support confiscation.

    A dark time is ahead. Trust in God and keep your powder dry. God bless America.

  24. BillC

    Thing is though, if anybody tries to seize you or your “arsenal” they won’t do it while you’re home. They’ll get you while you are taking a dump at the grocery store. Literally with your pants down.

    Why would they give you an ounce of home field advantage?

    1. Old, Cranky And Armed

      That tactic will work for a day or two. There is this thing called the “Internet” after all. Word gets around.

  25. Simon

    The Austrian army still calls its light infantry weapon ‘Sturmgewehr’ so at the very least the AUG and FAL are tainted by the assault rifle moniker.

    1. Aesop

      Only if they’re capable of selective fire, including the option for automatic fire.
      Otherwise airsoft guns are similarly “assault rifles”, because they superficially resemble the actual ones.

      Such actual assault weapons have been registered since 1934, banned from further importation since the 1980s, and one can count illegal incidents by their legal owners in the 82 years since registration on one’s fingers, if not their thumbs.

  26. Longbow

    Quote: “The greatest majority aren’t comfortable with it, but will do whatever they’re told.”

    No! No! No! Now, I just don’t wanna believe that!

    Officer friendly is the best sumbitch who ever shit between two boots! The best of our society! He’s absolutely reliable! He’s the one who defends your rights! He saves us from the all the bad people! Hell, my uncle Scooter was a cop and he was a good guy. So there!

    I’m sure that when the time comes, them cops will do the right thing. Now, all you loudmouths and such need to just shut up and comply.

  27. Winston Smith

    What did they used to say?
    ‘If every Jew who fought back and killed just one gooberminter that came for them, there would never have been a holocaust.’

    When they time comes, do your Duty. Especially you older folks.

    1. Boat Guy

      The quote from Aaron Zelman (RIP) is more to the effect “If every Jewish family in the Weimar Republic posessed a Mauser rifle, twenty rounds of ammunition and the WILL TO USE IT, Adolf Hitler would be a minor footnote…” Captials mine.

  28. Tom Stone

    An interesting post and interesting comments.
    I think it quite possible that Hillary Clinton could incite a rebellion based on her stated beliefs, hubris and truly horrific record of decisions as SoS.
    Civil Society depends on trust and this election cycle has been enormously destructive of the Public trust, either we see serious reform or things come apart.
    And there are no peaceful avenues of change left, it’s now a question of when and how.
    One thing I don’t see mentioned is just how complex and fragile our infrastructure is.
    We have only a 3 day supply of food on our major cities and everything depends on electricity…if a state actor decided to take down the grid ( And it wouldn’t take a state actor, the grid’s security is almost non existent) to encourage disorder the chaos would be widespread and long lasting.
    Even what people here are discussing, a few hundred or a few thousand people out of 300 Million plus take up arms to resist what they see as tyranny and start killing Cops, Banksters and Politicians is enough to cause a breakdown in our society.
    It happens, Martial Law is declared, the NSA sends out lists of “Potential Troublemakers” and the repression becomes more overt.
    How do you still get the beans,bacon and fuel to Safeway?
    How do people get to and from their jobs?
    America’s infrastucture is an enormously complex dynamic system with an unknowable number of feedback loops.
    Think what our major cities would be like after 2 weeks with no power.
    Not good.
    However it may be the best choice available.
    God help us all.
    Time to catch up on the election brought to us by the Jerry Springer Show.

    1. John Distai

      In regards to Hillary inciting a rebellion…

      “Oh no, Hillary has done so much good for women and children in her time in politics, and she knows how to get things done in the Middle East. She has tons of experience. And the Clinton Foundation has done so much good work around the nation. That ‘Clinton Cash’ thing, that author now works for the Trump campaign. ‘Clinton Cash’ can’t be credible. I don’t believe the Clinton’s are corrupt. They’ve done so much good in the world.

      Mr. Trump called a woman ‘Meees Peeegeee’, and some of those Trump people are threatening to take up arms if she gets elected. Do you really want someone like that in a position of power? I don’t!”

      An actual conversation with a coworker today. I may begin referring to them as “Million Dollar Bonus” (MDB), in honor of ZeroHedge’s ubiquitous commenter. Fellow Hedger’s will know who I’m talking about.

    2. GenEarly

      I’m not that cynical, but then I’ve been wrong before……. but I’ll vote with a ballot one more time because the next votes may be with bullets. War is to be avoided if at all possible, foreign and domestic; but if it must come so be it……if domestic comes First. Drain that DC swamp.

      It seems too many here have ignored the size of this potential surge against the ProgreSSive Feral Gov.

  29. obdo

    Si fueris Rōmae, Rōmānō vīvitō mōre; si fueris alibī, vīvitō sicut ibi.

    I’ve been in SoCal before and after the ’89 Roberti-Roos Assault Weapons Control Act and in the UK during the Dunblane hysteria leading to the Firearms (Amendment) (No. 2) Act 1997 and ban on handguns in Britain (but not in Northern Ireland for good reasons, plenty of licensed owners and carriers there still nowadays).

    Legal gun ownership in Germany is not a citizen’s natural right, but a privilege granted by the authorities and tied to certain conditions, one of them being reliability and worth of trust.

    Anyone publicly declaring him/her/anyself in enmity to the current system (which is not that bad, btw) would lose that privilege, thus forfeiting his/her/anyother’s ownership.

    Fair enough to me, would even happen across the border in the Swiss Gun Paradise.

    Remember the bunch of murderous assholes running wild, killing SPC Firearms Edward Pimental.

    No guns for nutters means more freedom for me.

    My 2 pfennige, sorry about the rant.

    The German SWAT cop is still dead, his wife widow and their kids must grow up without their father.

    1. John Distai

      Yes, taking the guns from those “nutters” will be great! That is until you’re unknowingly placed on that “No Fly List” and come for yours. But they’d never do that to you, would they?

      But then again, perhaps you are playing a good “Old Man”, as we all should.


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