They Brought Brass Knuckles, Knife to a Gun Fight

“Who needs it?” Wrong question. Right question? “How many?”

Midday. Your dad’s house. You and Dad are home.

A tremendous crash comes from the glass back door of your home, and you arm yourself. The AR should back them down, but when you meet, there are three of them, in black hoodies and masks, and they threaten you. They’re only armed with tools brass knucks, and knives, but your life just became a real-life Tueller Drill in your own damn kitchen.

That appears to be what actually happened. Four youthful career criminals from Owasso, OK, went to a neighborhood in Broken Arrow, OK, in which they’d been finding easy pickings. They had burglar tools and contact weapons. The 21-year-old woman who drove the getaway car, Elizabeth Rodriguez, supposedly organized the whole thing — she knew the young man in the house, and knew what property he and his father had for stealing. Like guns.

She waited in the getaway car with her three young children while her three pals went a-viking.

The three bold youths, Max Cook, Jacob Redfearn and Jake Woodruff, were ready for resistance — they would beat it down, or stab it. They didn’t know anyone was home, or, more likely, they didn’t care.

Now, they’re beyond caring. The three young criminals are at ambient temperature — two were DRT in the kitchen, and one made it to the driveway before collapsing. The last thing he saw in his worthless thieving life was probably his getaway driver (and the three kids comprising her next generation of idiots) running away on him. Not that it did her any good. As you’ll read below, she’s in the bag and will answer for her fellow criminals’ deaths in their mutual felony enterprise.

Of course, there’s another way of looking at it. A well-off young woman in the Blogbrother’s Facebook timeline sent this:

Three CHILDREN who made a bad decision were murdered, local people rejoice. Comments on the Facebook post for this story are seriously disturbing. This state is legit Fucked up.

Blogbro’s unsympathetic comment (to us, not to his FB friend):

She’s talking about the cooling slabs of meat who pulled that home invasion in Tulsa.

Those poor children.

I think I’d piss her off if I used the expression “evolution in action.”

We’ll say this: going out on a day rain is forecast without a jacket, is a “bad decision.” Picking up a Steven Seagal film from the $5 bin is a bad decision. Conducting a violent home invasion is not remotely a bad decision: it’s an invitation to be culled. An attempted suicide. Voting yourself off the island.

Only two things happen with a home invasion: you get stopped — shot or arrested — or you get away with it — stealing somebody’s stuff, maybe hurting ’em.

One of the children was 18 or 19, so he wasn’t a “children.” Likewise, the getaway driver was a fat, stupid-looking woman of 21, Elizabeth Rodriguez. She’s not very grown-up, but she’s nominally an adult anywhere in the world. As for the rest of them, old enough to attempt the crime is old enough to pay the piper.

Rodriguez fled the scene but later showed up at the police station to demand the cops arrest the murderer of her friends.

It doesn’t work that way. She’s charged with three counts of felony murder. As well as a bunch of stuff related to the burglary.

As of this writing, neither the homeowner nor his 23-year-old son who took out the trash has been charged.

Court documents indicate the homeowner who fired the shots is Zachary Peters, 23, and that Rodriguez knew him by name. The documents note Rodriguez planned the burglary, took the three boys to the house, and was waiting in the driveway until she heard shots and left.

Wagoner County deputies said she turned herself in to give officers the names of the dead so their parents could be notified.

These four slugs were just going to keep on doing this until someone put ’em down. They were armed home invaders.

Had Peters not been home, they could well have been armed with his rifle and any other guns in the house, next time. They didn’t respect anyone else’s life, and there’s no reason anyone else should respect theirs. Blogbro was right: think of it as evolution in action. (Just a bit late in the case of Elizabeth Rodriguez, unfortunately).

Some people say — no doubt the Blogbro’s fine young friend would say — nobody needs an AR-15, nobody needs a standard-capacity magazine, why would you ever need such a thing.

We dunno. How about — three young, violent home invaders?

76 thoughts on “They Brought Brass Knuckles, Knife to a Gun Fight

  1. Nynemillameetuh

    The mighty salt waffle has saved another life and righteously ended three evil ones. Might have to hold one of mine extra tight tonight.

  2. medic09

    As for your ultimate closing line, I disagree. That didn’t require and AR-15 and full magazine.

    Any large caliber automatic pistol would have sufficed. ;-)

    1. Dyspeptic Gunsmith

      Maybe, maybe not. Even with only ball ammo, the difference in mortality from a (eg) 10mm auto to a 5.56 rifle round is pretty significant. It no doubt was a big part of the reason why two didn’t make it back out the door, and the third collapsed in the driveway.

      1. Hognose Post author

        Yep, any rifle round has more sand in its pockets than any pistol round (weird-ass outliers discounted) just because it has so much more energy. For instance, a .30-30 lever action would be a nice option for those who live where centerfire semi-auto is banned — 10,000 whitetail hunters think it’s just the ticket for game in the 150-180 lb. range.

        1. James Sullivan

          A .30-.30 lever action was the most fun time shooting I’ve ever had too.

    2. Daniel

      People have been shot in the face or multiple times in other areas of the body by any number of handgun rounds and lived. Handguns are best when portability and concealability are a requirement. I’d be perfectly happy to carry an AR (or even an M1 Carbine) everywhere instead of a handgun.
      But within my own home, am going to use the most powerful weapon I can that will leave the walls standing.

  3. Steve

    I’m quite tired of people defending criminals. They made a bad decision? So people making bad decisions and violating the rights of others should just be allowed to do it on hopes they learn from it? How is the homeowner supposed to know if they’re making their first bad decision or their 50th? Why should his life be worth less than the people who broke into his home? “Oh, it’s your first time? Okay, you can beat me unconscious.” Good decisions have good consequences. Bad decisions, not so much.

    And isn’t there a difference between murder and justifiable homicide?

    1. James Sullivan

      Said it before,and I’ll say it many times because it’s my favorite quote:

      “Mercy for the guilty is cruelty to the innocent.”- Adam Smith

      When people defend criminals, that has become my standard response. Dumbass Millenials and Gen-Xers think it’s a Judge Dredd quote.

      Good for Zachary Peters. And good for his community who no longer needs to worry about these three at least.

      1. Mike_C

        One of my favorite quotes as well.

        The multi-ethnicity of the decedent criminal youts puts me in mind of those dreadful Golan-Globus movies of yore. As does the denouement. “They killed The Giggler, man!”

          1. LFMayor

            I am still Spetsnaz! And if that wasn’t actually produced by them it should have been

            I can always find inspiration in the rpg7 versus law showdown that ended Invasion USA

          2. Mike_C

            Dreadful != not enjoyable; sometimes it’s even high praise (in its own peculiar way).
            Admittedly the enjoyment is in an “I can’t believe I drank that twelve-pack of cheap beer and ate that pound of chips last night” sort of way.
            /ducking and covering

      2. Kurt Akemann

        This Gen-Xer knows better. And even if it was from Judge Dredd fiction, it would still be right.

      3. Nicholas Stix

        I love that thought from Smith, too. He was great and justly famous for economics, but was a brilliant moral thinker.

        “Three CHILDREN who made a bad decision”

        The moment I see or hear someone speak of cut-throats as “children,” even without caps, it’s clear what I’m dealing with. These people are not “compassionate.” They are defending evil, and condemning virtue. If you defend evil, you’re evil, too.

    1. Bret Stevenson

      May I use that quote (with proper due credit of course!)- I would love to use the “Evolution In Action” quote on hmmm… Got it! Howzabout it on a dead Che t-shirt? I live near ASU west. I could really have some fun with that.

      1. Hognose Post author

        Bret, it comes from a great book that the Bro and I both loved: Oath of Fealty by Niven and Pournelle. It starts off as the advertising slogan of an arcology — an artificial city within a single giant building — and takes on an ironic tone, as we use it when we discuss various crims ceasing their lives of crime in entertaining and kinetic ways.

        1. Boat Guy

          Guess I must have seen it somewhere else ’cause I’ve always said “Natural Selection At Work” a phrase I certainly didn’t coin

        2. Bret Stevenson

          Thanks for that. Niven… Great, now you’ve me hunting for yet another dead tree edition addition. “… entertaining and kinetic ways.”- the master level wordsmithing here always entertains & never disappoints.

  4. Toastrider

    I admit to a little sadness. Such a shame when three young men commit suicide (in the Ankh-Morpork sense of the term).

    But nobody forced them into this. They made their decision, and it was the wrong one.

    1. Aesop

      Patrician Havelock Lord Vetinari, supreme ruler of Ankh-Morpork, is of the firm opinion that not only should people be given maximum freedom of choice, but that they should furthermore be entitled to suffer the results of their choices with maximum freedom.

      Pretty much exactly as occurred in this example.

      1. SAM

        Patrician Havelock Lord Vetinari, supreme ruler of Ankh-Morpork is also 100% behind one man one vote and he’s that one man.

        I never thought I’d see anything about Discworld on Weaponsman.

          1. Kirk

            On the gripping hand, you now have the joy of reading Terry Pratchett for the first time. I suspect you’ll enjoy his work–I’m convinced he’s one of the few writers of the 20th Century who will be remembered into the 22nd.

            I particularly recommend to you his Christmas story, the appropriately named Hogfather. I think you’ll enjoy the hell out of that, and the movie isn’t half bad either. Character-wise, Susan Sto Helit is someone you’ll enjoy reading, and the actress portraying her in the movie ain’t half bad, either.

          2. Aesop

            Well, okay. But you should be advised upon doing that, that the Complete Guide To Ankh-Morpork recommends that you wash immediately afterwards.

            No problem. So many books, so little time.

            But now, at some point, we’ll be expecting an essay on The Arms Of The Night Watch, in your ample spare time.

          3. Aesop

            And you should commit the following Pratchett quote to memory:

            When you build a man a fire, you keep him warm for a day;
            but when you set a man afire, you keep him warm for the rest of his life.

          4. Kirk

            Pratchett had an exquisite knack for turning a phrase…

            And, despite being a bit of a lefty on the surface, he was a deeply pragmatic sort, and you find some very libertarian/conservative gems in his writing.

            My favorite one was a scene where the local revolutionaries have determined that they were going to raise themselves up a dragon, and use it as a tool of revolution. The dragon had other ideas, and despite vigorous chants of “The people united, shall not be ignited…”, well… They were. Both, actually…

  5. 11B-Mailclerk

    The AR-15

    Americas point-n-click interface

    Iconic, so remember to double-click the icon

  6. Klaus

    So much for Bidens “get a double barrel shot gun,that’s all you need” theory. There was three of them.

  7. Miles

    From commentary elsewhere, this may have put the quietus on further bungleries. There have been other break-ins in that vicinity with a similar MO.
    Just me, but it seems that the residents and police in the Tulsa metro area are TCOB with the criminal element.

  8. KPKo

    As a resident of OK, this made the local news much more enjoyable than usual.

    3 bad guys (not children) vs 1 good guy with an AR, with a happy ending. New York City/Chicago/Los Angeles, it’s your turn.

  9. Trone Abeetin

    If I may quote Pat Travers’ excellent lyrics, “boom boom, out go the lights”
    Yeah, there’s something about a centerfire rifle that says ” you’re going down for good”.

  10. Kirk

    It’s a taste of what’s coming.

    As the so-called criminal justice system breaks down, you’re going to see more and more cases like this happen. What you aren’t to see is people calling the cops to come deal with the dead bodies, because they’re going to start taking the S-S-S approach to this stuff.

    Why do I say this? Mainly because the odds are, those homeowners are going to get charged. Look up the recent history in that community–The DA and the cops there don’t like citizen self-defense, and have a history of dealing with their perceived “competition” rather harshly. I hope the homeowners have a good lawyer on retainer, and good insurance, as well. More likely than not, they’re going to need it. Especially if that young lady who was the ringleader has something to offer, like knowledge of small-scale drug dealing or something similar.

    The dynamic of this nation is sadly trending towards a more personal, private system of justice. You can’t get it from the courts and the cops, so… Alternatives become attractive, either by way of taking it yourself, or seeking the help of “organized crime”. A lot of people don’t “get” that a major reason the Mafia is what it is in Sicily and Southern Italy stems from an essential and ineradicable corruption of the institutions of the state–You can’t get justice from those who are supposed to provide it, wellllll… Alternatives become attractive. We’re at about the point where that shit gets started, here, and I weep for the consequences.

    There’s a very interesting dissent on a case I just read through, and the implications of it for the probable course of things in this country are quite worrying.

    Read that dissent, and marvel at the facts of the case. Legalized murder under the color of law, and nobody held accountable for it.

    When the time comes, and people are hunting down cops to murder for things like this, and nobody calls 911 anymore, know and understand why. Shit like this is at the root of the coming lawlessness–And, trust me, when the majority of the “good citizens” of this country embrace that sort of lawlessness, we’re going to see some serious shit go down. You can’t effectively govern or police without the essential consent of the governed or the policed, and the institutions of this country are in a race to the bottom, attempting to lose that consent. Whether it is the IRS, the BATF, or your local PD, this sort of observable “above the law and consequence” crap can only go on for so long, and then… Bang. You’d best be living in a fortified compound, if you’re a government employee–Or, your neighbors are going to take their objections to the actions of your agencies to you, personally. Along with your family, your pets, and your property.

    I’m kinda glad I’m not likely to see that end of the trend lines, but if they don’t start dealing with this shit, those days are coming.

    1. Eric

      We are a lot more gun friendly here in Oklahoma than other places, and have laws in place that are pro gun. Yes we have the liberals here like everywhere else, whining and moaning but even the Governess is an NRA member.

      Three down and a lot more to go before we reverse the pro-criminal culture nurtured by the last president.

      1. Boat Guy

        Gotta put a plug in for USCCA and their “insurance”. Well worth the money IMO.

    2. Daniel

      To expand, in addition to overt actions like the above, other grave injustices occur with the full weight of law:

      “Massachusetts prosecutors will move in mid-April to vacate nearly all of the roughly 24,000 drug convictions tainted by a single corrupt forensic lab chemist, The Boston Globe reported Saturday, marking the denouement of one of the largest drug lab scandals in U.S. history.

      A Massachusetts prosecutor told the state’s Supreme Judicial Court last week that D.A.’s would seek to keep fewer than 1,000 of the 24,000 convictions tainted by drug lab chemist Annie Dookahn, who pled guilty in 2012 to falsifying test results in favor of law enforcement and tampering with evidence over a nine-year period starting in 2003.”

        1. Dyspeptic Gunsmith

          The wreckage brought by the Hinton Lab is enormous. So far, the ID’d two female chemists:

          1. The first one, flat-out lied, about performing tests. The headline-grabbing chemist flat-out lied her ass off – on reports, on results, on even having performed tests, in court, you name it.

          2. A second female ‘chemist’ at Hinton was found to not have a chemistry degree, but rather was a sociology major who had taken a couple of chemistry courses.

          Each one brought into question the results and convictions in 10’s of thousands of cases.

        2. JAFO

          During the same time frame the Massachusetts crime lab failed to report a whole pile of DNA test results to law enforcement. It was turned up when the Massachusetts State Police raided the lab. I’m aware of one violent abduction and rape that was never prosecuted as a result. The only good thing about that case is that the scumbag was already serving life without parole for three other rapes.

          There were other worse ones, I’m sure.

          1. Hognose Post author

            As I am fond of saying, “The odds are the police will never close the case of your burgled home, but the odds are that the burglar who did it will spend half his life in prison for the other ones he does.” Actually I have a pithier and briefer way of saying it that I’m too tired to remember.

        3. James F..

          The Massachusetts lady’s name is spelled Dookhan–she’s an Indian from Trinidad.Nicholas Stix found three different forensic science scandals with diversity hires and made them into an article for (link in nick).

          When they did a LAW & ORDER episode about the Joyce Gilchrist scandal in Oklahoma, where a black lady was fired for faking lab reports for a number of cases including 23 death sentences, at least 11 of which were carried out, the forensic science lady was played by a blonde.

          1. Mike_C

            >the forensic science lady was played by a blonde.
            Yeah, well, they had no choice: the actresses of the appropriate demographic were busy saving the US space program.

    1. Aesop

      Hey, hey, now! Thanks, but please, no shilling por moi here please.
      When I hit paydirt, I get plenty of hits.
      Especially for a video that one shouldn’t watch less than thirty minutes after eating, for safety.

      Back on the topic of the original post:
      Note to self: Send check to shooter sufficient to cover his ammo expenditure, and one Bad Guy Marksmanship Award poster, with two bronze clusters for additional awards affixed.

      Such salutary outcomes ought to be encouraged, starting with the local mayors and chiefs of police.
      The medal ought to be a bronze disc, with a representation of one round in the X ring, suspended from a red ribbon, with a white center panel surmounted by one black spade, symbolic of the ace of the suit.
      Might have to call Northwest Territorial Mint about that.

      1. Aesop

        If I lived 1500 miles closer, I can think of three tombstones that would find plaques affixed afterwards at some point with the frequent benediction of our Bloghost:
        Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

  11. Dyspeptic Gunsmith

    A couple of interesting things from nosing around the Tulsa, OK media:

    1. The female get-away driver/instigator is being called “Mrs. Rodriguez.” She was older than any of the deceased. She seems to be not terribly bright.

    2. The DA claims to be reviewing all the evidence before saying whether or not they’re going to charge the homeowner.

    3. Law enforcement keeps saying “multiple shots were fired.” They refuse to say how many. When asked if the number was “more than three,” all the LEO’s will respond with is “multiple.”

    1. jim h

      it would seem by those factoids that she is trying to make a deal, and there is an investigation going on. I don’t see charges coming out until they get a full sense of the mediasplosion; my understanding is that (like GA, where I am) OK has a castle doctrine in place, and it’s similar to ours. three guys in masks with weapons to offer violence – not simply crowbars and screwdrivers in this case, they were armed specifically to offer violence to inhabitants here – would make a criminal charge a real problem. not to mention that they weren’t simply on his property, they were *in* the property’s living environs. the only real thing I would think they are investigating is the location of the third guy; it could get sticky if there is proof he was outside the property and retreating before the shots were fired into him. that is, if Peters fired him up as he was outside of the building and retreating to the car, he might be liable somehow, depending on specifics of the state law. if it’s proved the shots happened inside and he was not retreating, dead case.

      im very pleased that Peters and his dad are ok, and hope they make it through the legal stuff with no issue, though they will probably be an AR light for the case against the swamp troll pictured above. as well, I do hope Peters in particular doesn’t somehow develop any sense of guilt or mental health problems for snuffing out these dirtbags. modern society has a shameful way of trying to imbue mental health problems into survivors of a crime like this.

      lastly….criminals do strange things. in all of my years investigating, I’ve never really felt the need to say “now I’ve seen it all” or anything. but something about the blurb about her turning herself in to tell the cops the names of the dead so their families could be notified doesn’t quite ring true to me. something is very odd about that statement, especially after reading where she demanded the po po arrest the murderers of her friends. they should have, and probably would have normally said, some variant of “she is currently in custody” and left it at that. I’m looking forward to hearing more about it.

      1. Hognose Post author

        None of these details seem to be coming from the police spokesman, except that “it looks like self-defense, and we’re investigating,” which is probably one clause beyond what an experience urban PR cop would say (“we’re investigating”!). My guess is that they’re coming from reporters who have lots of lines into the Broken Arrow, county and state police, and the prosecutor’s office. No way a prosecutor will have given an opinion.

        Andrew Branca does a great job of teaching the law of self defense and as you point out, to avoid legal imbroglio, there’s a situational cutline before which you do not shot, and a cutline after which you desist shooting. Then, it depends on your location. For instance, here in NH there are some towns and counties that will actually attempt a prosecution of a self-defender. And there are others where the prosecutors won’t touch, and still others where the the prosecutors would like to but the police will not help them do it. The situation in FL is similar. If you recall the Zimmerman case, there were voices demanding his scalp and voices wanting him let go.

  12. John Distai

    Bad decisions? Uh huh. Real world consequences. The Earth is a harsh and unforgiving planet. Somehow, many American’s seem to have lost this lesson.

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  14. revjen45

    1) Hoo-boy, what a honey!! **NOT** I can’t imagine how anybody could be hard up enough to pork that sweathog but there’s an ass for every seat. The spawn of such must be the penultimate Uentermenschen.
    2) ref. Kirk above. This wasn’t about anything as ethereal as “justice.” It was about survival. “About “justice” would involve hunting them down afterward for some personal revenge.
    3) See this for more info: Apparently the fair Ms. Sweathog had the whole thing planned out and it’s obvious the 3 Departed Cretins were armed and ready to deal with resistance from the legal owner of the property.
    4) Zachary Peters is lucky his assailants were of ther Caucasian persuasion. Had they been Poor Oppressed Snowflakes of Color He would be dealing with howling mobs screaming for his head and excoriation in the DNC controlled media e.g.: 3 “children” had to die at the hands of an assault weapon wielding racist Trump supporter for an unfortunate mistake. This to be accompanied by blubberings from criminal associates of the now-deceased dirtbags about how they really were just good kids and didn’t deserve to die and hate crime charges from Federal DOJ.
    5) In the turmoil of a gunfight in which you are engaging multiple armed assailants I (as a “reasonable person”) can see how Dirtbag #3 might catch some lead after he turned to flee. Poor baby!!
    6) GOOD SHOOTING Zach!

  15. Docduracoat

    Feel good story of the day!
    I would be pleased to lend them one of my AR’s until theirs is returned by the police
    And a couple of loaded mags

  16. Cap'n Mike

    They released the 911 call.

    Nothing I heard or read leads me to believe it was anything but a good shoot.
    Interesting that Peters thought he only shot two of them, and that the third ran out. He mentions that he shot them in the upper torso. Maybe he fired twice and got two for the price of one bullet.
    The dispatcher seemed in too much of a hurry to have Peters unload his rifle and disarm himself. It sounds like he wisely waited till he was sure the Deputies were in the house before he unloaded his weapon.
    He sounds calm and in control.
    Strong work.

  17. Cap'n Mike


    “Keira Ellison wrote on Facebook that a candelight vigil will be held for the three teens on Friday at 8 p.m. at Owasso High School.”

    “Bring your own candle, everything else is provided,” she wrote. “Please absolutely no negativity.”

    1. DaveL

      Please absolutely no negativity.

      You see, that was the homeowner’s problem, he never put up a Facebook post asking “Please absolutely no breaking through the glass door or threatening me with weapons.”

  18. James I. Rios

    Important note about the Tueller Drill. It is designed with the assumption that a police officer is *expecting* an attack, though his back is turned to the attacker, and that he is able to get off two center of mass shots before the attacker gets him with his knife. Now, extrapolate this to a “civilian version”, and it becomes almost nightmarish.

    Assume you have a good set up. An *always* easy draw, and a round in the chamber, with the safety on. The knife attacker is not screaming or holding his knife over his head in obvious view in the slasher movie manner. Instead he is likely using subterfuge, acting calm, maybe even asking you for a cigarette or a light or some other distraction, *trying to close the gap*. For your part, you are likely *not* expecting an attack, or thinking about drawing your gun and immediately shooting. People generally think about themselves, not others.

    As I said, this can be a nightmarish scenario. But how much distance between you and the attacker do you need? Nine times out of ten they are legitimate, and you don’t want to brandish against a harmless or indeterminate person in public, which is a criminal act. So you have serious inhibitions against drawing.

    And all the while the knife attacker is getting closer.

    Probably the best response is not your gun, but a *complementary* weapon, a knife. This is because it can be drawn immediately on seeing a potential aggressor, yet concealed behind the forearm. So if the attacker gets within your optimal gun use distance, it acts as a “stand off” weapon so you can draw your gun. You really don’t want to use it unless your gun is “smothered”, so you cannot draw and use it.

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